The Support Automation Show: Episode 23

In this episode of The Support Automation Show, a podcast by Capacity, Justin Schmidt is joined by Rachael McBearty, Chief Customer Officer at LeanData and Host of the OpsStars Podcast. They discuss how to create the right mix of automation and human intervention to ensure you are delivering high-quality customer support

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Justin Schmidt: Welcome to The Support Automation Show, a podcast by Capacity. Join us for conversations with leaders in customer or employee support who are using technology to answer questions, automate processes, and build innovative solutions to any business challenge. I’m your host, Justin Schmidt. Rachael McBrearty, welcome to The Support Automation Show. Where does this podcast find you?

Rachael McBrearty: I am in the Bay Area, Pleasanton, California.

Justin: Love me some Northern California. Rachael joins us as the chief customer officer at LeanData and the host of the OpsStars podcast. Rachael, to get us started, how about you give us a little background on yourself and the journey to chief customer officer at LeanData and then what LeanData does?

Rachael: Sure. I started off actually in graphic design, visual design, and then got into software design from print. That will date me, but I’ve been on a long journey here. When the wave of all of the digitization or e-enablement came along, I jumped on that as a designer and really got into software design and that brought me into technology companies. From there, I’ve grown into a management role. That’s the short story.

I love working for software companies, I love helping organizations to transform using the technology to automate and improve workflow processes. It’s always been a passion of mine I think very much from a user-centered perspective. As a designer, you think about who you’re communicating with or who you’re enabling. That’s always been the heart of what I love to do.

At LeanData, I am responsible for ultimately our customer success with LeanData’s product. My team is comprised of solution consultants, professional services, customer success, support training, and customer marketing. Everyone who supports the customer on their journey to get to value, we are measured by net retention, so both the retention and growth in our customer base.

Justin: Very cool. To start off our conversation, we’ll start with the same question I ask everybody off the top. That is, when you hear the word support automation, what does that mean to you?

Rachael: When I think about automation, I think about it as replacing human labor with machines. We used to think about that as robots. In the manufacturing plant today, we know we can automate processes using common software applications to enabling self-driving cars. Automation, I think, has become much broader. When we think about it in terms of automating support, as a chief customer officer, I think of support as a range of services across the entirety of that customer journey, so anytime a customer has a question that needs help, from they might be planning, to implementation, to training, troubleshooting.

Not just technical support, but anytime that we can understand what they need and see where we can automate the response first, if it’s a repetitive common response that we get all the time, so they’re standard life cycle questions, making sure we have the content, to then also looking at how we can optimize what the humans need to do. Anytime that we can automate some of the processes where they have to go gather data or look up information. I think about it in both ways. When I think about automating the support process, I don’t just think about technical support, but more broadly.

Justin: The journey from– Journey might not be the right word to use, but when you think of the breadth of the modern customer experience, from simple interactions with the help center inside of a product or filing a support ticket to get what password changed or whatever it is, all the way through QBRs, driving adoption of new features, and as [00:04:08] you’ve mentioned, to your team at LeanData driving expansion revenue within those accounts.

Do you feel that at this stage of the technological progress that support and customer facing teams have, which part of that map of the customer experience do you think has the best and most high value automation available to it? Is it the support and ticket deflection side, is it triggering emails or data for customers’ success to drive new features, or flag things for the next QBR or whatever it is? Where do you see the most value being driven as we sit today?

Rachael: That’s a great question. I will answer it in the context of LeanData. We are a rapidly growing and evolving company, so our processes are changing pretty rapidly as we bring on the whole new segments, like we’re building out a big enterprise capability. As I think about it as a CCO, where do I need to apply automation, I am thinking about what are those common activities? You mentioned email communications. We’re going to need that no matter what we’re doing and how we organize our teams, whatever our processes are. Let’s automate that. Anytime we can trigger the communications, we should do that.

I think within the technical services side, there are going to be common questions that come up. If we can automate those responses to those common questions instead of having it immediately go to humans, because we all know, our customers, they fall– For us, we have pretty advanced customers who want to self-serve. They don’t want to have to call. They’re not going and jumping on to the phone as their first choice, they want to self-serve, they want to get it answered.

I think you also have to think about, you have to negate your audience, who is your customer and how do they want to engage. We have a segment of the population that is very savvy and wants a DIY, they want to do it themselves. You have to really build and design toward that customer need. That’s where we focus and really enabling them. If we can have some  automatic automated response that drives them to a self-serve, that’s what they love.

Justin: You’re bringing up a really interesting point. LeanData is uniquely positioned relative to– you’re in the bucket of software, where your users are savvy. Salesforce is not the most simple, easy-to-use thing. Sales operations is an increasingly complicated endeavor. At scale, the two of those together means you need to have really smart people driving that bus. You’re also working with a lot of people who like to tinker, who like to try things, who are in the weeds basically most of their day. It makes sense for you to optimize towards providing that great self-service is a good little piece of low hanging fruit to grab, so to speak.

Rachael: I didn’t answer your question on what does LeanData do, so this might be a time to highlight that. Yes, we served revenue operations professionals primarily with software capabilities to automate a lot of their go-to-market motions, including inbound, outbound, ABM, upsell, partner. We are in the business of helping to automate workflow. I think that we also have to be a good example, that is you, Justin right, [chuckles] if your company is in the business of doing it.

That being said, as you said, our customers are pretty savvy, the ones that are coming to us, at least those early adopters. Yes, they expect they’re going to be doing things much more digitally and want to interact digitally. I think that’s super important with any automation that you’re doing. One, it can never really stand alone, it’s not going to solve all your problems, but I think the degree to which you can automate really should be worked back from how your customers want to engage and the kind of experience they need.

If they are customers who expect high touch, need high touch, maybe aren’t as digitally savvy, to your point, you want to make sure that you’re meeting and addressing their needs. At the end of the day, the key metric for me is customer satisfaction because I know that’s what leads to retention and loyalty. If you put in a bunch of automation and your CSAT drops, great that you just saved on productivity, you probably had a much bigger negative impact on the business than positive.

Justin: When you think about CSAT, and that’s the ultimate North Star for any customer facing organization, but when you think about the benefits that you’ve achieved for yourself and for your teams, with some of the successful and well optimized automation and technology you guys have implemented at LeanData, what are some of the things that that extra bandwidth was applied towards?

Rachael: More than where the bandwidth was applied, it probably has been more of an avoidance of needing to hire as we grow. Our productivity has gone up tremendously. If we automate those back office things, that’s primarily how we have been thinking about it, “Let me get things off of the plates of my customer success or support teams.” Anything that they’re doing, like emailing or gathering information that we can automate, we’re going to do.

What I just reported out to the board was the incredible improvements in productivity. We are, let’s face it, in a world where we can’t hire fast enough, we can’t find the talent. That’s been a real driver for us, is if we can, as we scale and grow, we don’t have to just continue to hire folks, but we can get them more productive. That’s really what’s been for us at this point in time.

Justin: Yes. In terms of the customer journey and how you approach the– This is going to sound obvious, but I want to just mention it anyway. I assume your team spends most of their time post-sale with customers as opposed to prospects. When you think about onboarding, activating, and getting customers to see and drive value with LeanData quickly as possible, is there any particular function or piece of the platform that you have your teams focus on to execute first? Is it getting the routing and matching set up first, is it some of the ABM stuff, is it depending on what package the customer has?

I’m just curious with a savvy customer, with a powerful platform, it’s a very valuable thing inside revenue teams to route, match and do all the stuff that you guys do, just as someone who spends his time trying to market and drive revenue and pipeline for a sales team. I’m just curious where you guys focus the most of your initial energy with customers.

Rachael: That’s a great question. It usually starts almost like you might think about any automation project. We look at how do we improve the productivity of the teams from a perspective of where are they spending all their time managing data? It does usually start with putting in matching to be able to match accounts to contacts or leads. Because a lot of those things end up being done manually, right, you look to the salesperson rather than going looking for what account it belongs to.

If we can take away all those behind-the-scenes manual data management, that frees up a ton of time for the team. We usually start with that because it’s really taking an existing process and getting rid of all of the days a week of time entire teams no longer have to be sitting there managing the data, waking up early, making sure they’re checking everything before the sales team comes in.

Then the next level on that is we can build on how do we improve your process? What else could we do to maybe it’s, “Hey, instead of automating it, today you’re sending it in to the sales team because that’s who you’ve been handing it to. Well, maybe you want to send really into a Salesloft or an Outreach into a cadence instead. It’s in building on different ways in which we can help them respond and improve that buyer experience because maybe it just makes more sense to send a lead that came from a result of downloading a white paper into a cadence and make sure that they’ve engaged and read that white paper and then sending it to an SDR who calls and then it irritates the crap out of them.

It gets to that next level where we can then say, “Okay, great, we get the leads into your team,” but now maybe we need to say, “P1s go to the SDR team, P2s go to an email response, initially P–” Anyway, you get that. You move through it with the client incrementally, but first, “Hey, let’s just get a lot of that manual stuff you’re doing behind the scenes automated to then free you up.” That’s usually where we start. No matter what the motion is, it usually starts there.

Justin: I asked you that question specifically because just I’m intimately familiar with a lot of the benefit that a platform like LeanData drives and I wanted you to articulate exactly what you just did, which is applicable to customer facing teams, regardless of what your product is, which is, what is the fastest time to value activity within your product and within the service offering that you have that you can immediately start driving value for your customers?

I think it’s really interesting how– I can do some linguistic gymnastics here to say that LeanData is also in a way doing support automation because the sales ops teams that used to have to do all the machinations to, “Is this just a misspelled account or is this an entirely different account?” and route and convert and do all that stuff, you guys are giving time back to your customers, much like, I would like to think, Capacity or some of the other helpdesks and AI tools out there are giving time back to their customers, and it creates this sort of flywheel.

You’re in a unique position where clearly you guys have spent a lot of time on optimizing and automating your own customer facing operations, but then you are also automating and optimizing and creating time for your customers and it just creates this really interesting flywheel. This is one of the things that I don’t think comes up enough on this show, is that there really is a virtuous cycle that you can get in when you are trying to do for your customers the same thing you are trying to do for your team. That is free up time, unlock people to do the human stuff that we’re the best at, and get the repetitive tasks off their place.

When we were going back and forth about doing this interview, one of the things that you said was support across the customer journey and the importance of considering the right mix of automation with human work. We just touched on them in that very first customer interaction. I’m curious, when you think about the other end of the customer journey, when your CSMs or account– whatever title you guys use over there, are looking to drive incremental revenue, upsells, et cetera, what it is, what does the automation versus human touch look like on that end of the customer life cycle?

Rachael: We use, of course, LeanData to identify and route opportunities into our customer success team. If it is a customer who is shopping and inquiring or if it’s a customer who asks– or we open a case and it’s the customer and it’s a question where we’re using LeanData to route leads and cases and any inquiries that come in from a customer into our customer success team, really, providing them with the ability to go respond or to make sure that we understand what that customer need is.

It’s surprising how many companies don’t differentiate their existing customer base, especially in sales software from the prospects and it’s such a missed opportunity. I think we have set up an entirely separate graph and flow for how we deal with our customers versus how we do deal with prospects because we know them and we know who serves them and we know more of what their needs are. We’ve really thought about the automation or orchestration of that customer’s experience. When they come in and engaging with what we would say are indicators that they are looking to buy.

Justin: Very interesting. That’s a good hot take that it’s surprising how many organizations don’t treat or route flow design their motions differently for customers versus prospects. You’re saying a lot of times they treat them interchangeably?

Rachael: Yes. That customer might get sent to the SDR team more often than you would imagine and then they’ll call them as a cold call. That’s a crappy customer experience.

Justin: Yes, that’s not good.

Rachael: I’ve been your customer for five years and you just– I’m looking at your new product and you call me and it’s like you don’t even know who I am because you haven’t made that connection to the account or routed into a team that deals specifically with the existing account or the account manager or account owner. It could be CSMs. A lot of times it gets routed right to sales.

We actually have two different flows or strategies because our portfolio is very diverse. We serve very large enterprise clients and very small startups, so we have different flows for how we can engage. If that small company is looking to buy more, we can send them really right to our account managers who are extraordinarily customer-centric. They’re amazing.

The bigger accounts, I like to send it into the CSM who has better idea of what’s going on and then they can decide, “Hey, yes, this is a qualified lead, so let’s open that opportunity and route it to the account manager on the account.” I think, too, you’ve got to really think about, again, that customer journey that you want to design depending on the segment and the need.

Justin: Switching gears just a little bit, whenever leaders need to bring in some new initiative inside the organization, we all deal with the good old-fashioned problem of change management. Without sounding too much like a textbook from my days in college, change management is a big, hairy problem, whether you’re at an enterprise of thousands of employees or you’re a small startup team. Whenever you bring in something new, there’s getting the buy-in from the stakeholders, there’s training and education, there’s any technical stuff if you have to unplug, I don’t know, HubSpot and plug in Marketo, for example. There’s a lot of work there to be done.

In your experience, and you’ve led some pretty high-impact teams in your career, when you’re bringing in new technology, and specifically any technology that automates work, what are some of the lessons you’ve learned on executing that change management such that everyone’s bought in, everyone sees it as a benefit, and that tool and that process is well adopted going forward?

Rachael: The first thing that I ask the team is how big of an impact is this going to have on the current process? Does it fundamentally change it, so we’re going to do things in a very different way or are we going to take things away that you were doing manually that now it’ll be automated and that’s great? Instead of having to go research that customer, pull the information together, and then make the phone phone call, it’s going to be pulled together for you and you go make the phone call.

That’s not a significant change for that individual, in fact, they’re delighted because now you’ve cut out those hours of work they were doing the research. It really does depend on that impact. That’s the first thing that I think about because it’s much easier to roll out those incremental– If it’s just major system, it’s much easier to roll out something that is more incremental or it’s just a translation of, “Hey, we’re doing this as a spreadsheet, now it’s in a PSA software.” It doesn’t feel that different. For the bigger ones, I think you do have to think about the step changes that the people are going to go through.

I will say, with our CSM capability, our competencies, it’s been a multi-year journey to transform that organization, because like many organizations, the CSM start as doing everything; renewals, dealing with the customers’ questions, working with support. As we’ve evolved, that team has been able to be much more are focused on working with the customer to drive to value, but it’s a very different type of person and a very different role now than it was even 18, 24 months ago.

There we really have to think about, do we have even the right people or do we hire people in who have already done this new motion and then they start to help train the others? Thinking strategically about stepping it up for those who have to learn a whole new motion, but sometimes it’s just easier to bring in some experts who can lead the way. Did that answer your question?

Justin: Yes, that’s really interesting stuff because I don’t think enough leaders– This might be one of my hot takes. If I had a soundboard, I’d like push a button and we’d have a goofy sound effect about an incoming hot take. I don’t think enough leaders know when to say, “We don’t have the expertise staff for this. Let’s bring in someone who does,” and you bring in outside help to do that. You mentioned that.

That’s really valuable. If you’ve got the resources to do that, you really should because it’s amazing– Just let me give you a bit of an example. We were going through some Salesforce changes to opportunity stages and it was a big, simple– You say that to someone on the street and they’re like, “Okay,” but if you’ve worked in revenue operations for any amount of time, that could be a big deal.

We brought in some outside help to ideate and walk us through some of the change management challenges of that and it was a really beneficial exercise. It made it a lot easier. I think especially today, in worlds where you have teams that may be scaling quickly, may be increasing workload faster than they can hire people to take up and increase the bandwidth, you want to just get things done quickly or not take the time to do it right, all that thing. You touched on something that I think more of us should just remind ourselves every now and then, which is it’s okay to bring in some help on this.

Rachael: I think the other thing that I’ve learned is there’s always an impatience in business too. Like you need to get– “Let’s get this fixed. We know it’s a problem, how quickly can you get it fixed?” Some things just take the time they take. I think also recognizing that breaking the project down into smaller steps, you can start to see progress, but just calling out like to transform organizations could be a year and a half to two years, it depends on size.

It can take a long time, but where do you want to be in a year and a half from now? You want to be in this new state? Let’s start marching toward it, but I think you’re recognizing that some of these things do take time, so take time to plan it, but also just set expectations that, “We will get there, but it’s not going to be this quarter.” That’s a tough thing, as somebody who has to communicate into the board or into CEO, where they’re like, “Well, why isn’t this done? [crosstalk] You do have to just recognize sometimes it’s– Yes, these big things just take time.

I think that, yes, back to your point, if you plan it out and you understand that it’s going to be multiple steps, makes it more manageable and you can course correct as you go. I think it’s an important muscle build if you’re going to do some major implementations and initiatives.

Justin: Totally. This has been a wonderful conversation, Rachael. I really can’t thank you enough for taking time out of your afternoon, if it is afternoon where you are. I really appreciate it. As we wrap up here, I want to get your thoughts on where you see the future of automation in the customer landscape and customer journey. We are making a lot of headway in software. We’ve got amazing voice assistance, every now and then I have a little question in my head, like, “Am I talking to a human?” when you call in somewhere. A lot of very exciting, very interesting things are happening.

On this flip side, you’ve got a million different vendors out there. You’ve got the giant players, the Salesforces and ServiceNows of the world consolidating and building more around their moat. Going to be a very interesting next several years. What excites you about the future of automation in the customer world?

Rachael: Well, I may take it out there pretty far, but I’ve spent a lot of time in IoT and automation over the years. What I always think about is Jeff Bezos saying he’s going to have that package on my doorstep of something I need even though I didn’t place the order. It’s really getting to the point where we’re anticipating and helping our clients before they even need it, or like the appliance that phones home because it’s not performing optimally and it’s costing me more in energy than it should.

I think that it’s going to be very interesting when you can start to be much more predictive of customer needs and problems, not just dealing with them when they decide to come interact with you as a company. We’re starting to see that too even in our world with the 6senses and other AI solutions out there, where companies now aren’t waiting for that customer to come to their website and ask for a demo because we know they’re already 80– what? Now it’s like 89% of the way through their journey before they come talk to you. Even saying, “Hey, who’s out there? What are the triggers to them wanting to buy or having the problem that I solve?”

Companies like 6sense that are helping you sense what’s going on in the market is really exciting. I think that the more that we as organizations can anticipate and help our customers solve problems, those are going to be the companies that really are out there and getting ahead. I think it’s just going to look very different because we have so much amenability to reach to their world.

I think that’s going to be very interesting as we roll into the future. A lot of it is here already. I know my car calls home when it’s not functioning well. I think that’s an interesting way to think about how you solve the problems for customers, it’s like, don’t just wait for them to engage with you as a company.

Justin: Shout out to 6sense. They are building a great business over there. It’s also a well-named product for what it does. I’m with you, there’s a lot of opportunity in predictive behavior and predictive intelligence. One of our– We have a customer who’s a big university, big hybrid university is the best way to put it, and we built some models and they use our platform to basically monitor student behaviors. If a kid isn’t checking in X number of times and Y number of opportunities and a bunch of other signals happen, we said the likelihood that this student may drop out is increased and fire off a note to their advisor to engage with the student or whatever.

That predictive customer success, if you will, I made that up on the spot here, is definitely going to be something I see more and more. I’m sure my– I have an ongoing account with the landing page builder, I’m not going to say which one it is, that I haven’t logged into in a while. They should probably know that and send me an email and ask me what’s going on, but I have not received that yet. If you’re one of the big landing page builders out there, I’m a customer of yours-

Rachael: Get on that. [laughs]

Justin: -you better get on that. [chuckles] That’s exactly what you’re talking about. We have the signals, you observe the patterns. I’m a hundred percent with you, I do think that it’s going to be a big part of the future of customer support and customer success.

Rachael: Yes. I hope we do get away too from– I think part of the reason why folks aren’t coming to us until it’s too late in the process, using some of these capabilities to just inundate me with marketing messages once I do engage with you, we got  through this phase into higher-level engagement. I encourage companies to think much bigger than tagging me and swarming around me just because I hit your website.

Justin: Yes, exactly. It’s the difference between a, let’s say, Honda or Toyota blasting you at retargeting after you clicked on something and a $250,000 a year ERP platform. Those should be treating the messaging and the funnel differently, but they don’t always. You’re right, though, the dark funnel, as we call it in marketing, of all the stuff you can’t measure and you don’t have insight into, well, there’s a corollary to that on the customer success side and the retaining and growing and maintaining your customers.

This has been an awesome conversation. I really, again, Rachael, can’t thank you enough for coming on the show. Let’s end with our quick fire round, my favorite part of every episode I’ve done. What is the book that you most often recommend to people?

Rachael: Storytelling with Data by Cole Nussbaumer Knaflic, I believe, is her name, but yes, Storytelling With Data. I think as we move into this world of automation, it also gives us a lot more data and insights into how people are engaging, both from an employee standpoint, even customer standpoint. The more things that we have online, the more we can measure.

I think we do rely a lot on our intuition. There’s an example recently where we had– It was actually going into COVID, where it felt like all of the customers were asking for discounts. It just felt overwhelming in those first couple of weeks. When we look back, it was like a handful. It was less than 1%, but it felt overwhelming.

I think teams learning how to look at the data, present it, analyze it, do storytelling is so critical, especially since we’re sitting on so much of it. If you look at the bigger picture, you can get so much better insights into how to make improvements, whether it’s in your team or as a chief customer officer. I think having the ability not just to pull the information, but also put it into a form that helps drive insights to make decisions.

Justin: Love it. When you think about your day-to-day and just the way you manage your work life, you’ve had a great successful career, you’ve been at some amazing companies, you’ve led some great teams, you need to be productive and you need to be at your best, what’s the best productivity hack, using my scare quotes, productivity hack, productivity tip, what’s the best one of those that you’ve ever heard that you’ve implemented into your day-to-day?

Rachael: It’s around email management. It’s always taking so much of my time. When I look at my email list in the morning, I delete and don’t answer most them. I just delete them.

Justin: Rachael, you’re my hero.

Rachael: [chuckles] I try to move mostly to Slack, but for the most part, I feel– Well, if I answer them, they just keep building. For the most part, if there’s a question in there that needs to be answered, people will find me some other way, but that’s cut a good hour out of my day. That’s significant, by just going, “You know what I mean?” you answer all these.

Justin: Yes, you are my hero. Every year, I do a big productivity roundup webinar. I’m actually doing it in a couple weeks. Go to capacity.com for more info on that. One of the slides I have is, I have a whole section around email because email, I think, is the bane of every knowledge worker in white collar existence. I have a slide in there. It’s a gift of me going in my inbox, hitting select all and hitting archive. That’s the tip? Just get rid of it.

Now, obviously, you want to get– If your CEO emails you, you email them back, but we get so much email and we let it fester. It just becomes this– It’s like having a messy kitchen, you can’t cook in a messy kitchen. I’m just looking at my inbox right now, actually. 7 of the first 10 things I see are messages from either SDRs or some sort of nurture sequence. Now, I fill out a lot of forms as just competitive research or whatever, but the point remains nothing wrong with deleting emails, especially internally if you’re using Slack or Teams or whatever. Much better.

Rachael: Yes. I love it. If you archive it too, you can go back later and search them and [crosstalk] proof them too. There might be a theme and then you can just respond all at once, but it just makes it much easier than doing it point by point. Any way that you can get to manage it differently is– Yes. I love that. Filtering. It’s not that I don’t look at everything, but I just have to be super ruthless.

Justin: You’ve got your folders, rules, and certain things are flagged as important, et cetera, but in any given day, there aren’t that many of those emails. You get a lot of junk as a– Once the word manager appears in your job title, from that point on, or it’s like if you’re working in a startup and you raise a round and that hits Crunchbase or whatever, all sorts of SDRs come out of the woods, “Hey, I see you guys just raised $50 million. You want to buy my calendar tool?” or whatever.

If you could recommend one website, blog, Slack, community, LinkedIn group, in-person meetup, if we ever get back to those, for people who are interested in becoming a chief customer officer one day, what would you recommend?

Rachael: Well, today, I honestly spend a lot of my time in groups that are related to where my customers spend time. I’m in ops communities, like the MSPs or RevGeniuses, we have our own ops community. More than I do is looking for tips for CCOs. Gainsight has for me been huge in terms of-

Justin: Yes, Gainsight’s great.

Rachael: -just helping them. They’ve just got such great content in community. Gainsight from a CCO perspective, just in helping me build out what I need for the customer success organizations. That was the biggest area of focus. I think if you are already somewhere, I just encourage anybody at every level, whether you’re the CCO or down to individual contributor, spend time with your customers, spend time. It will pay off. If you understand where they’re at, what their challenges are, what they’re talking about, it’s pretty huge.

Justin: Couldn’t agree more. To end our conversation, if there’s one person– and I’m going to let you take just wherever you want to go with this one, if there’s one person who you would like to take out for coffee or a cocktail, depending on the time of day and the vibe, I guess, just to pick their brain to help you be a better leader, to help you execute, to help you be the best you can be, who would it be?

Rachael: Well, I’m not sure I’m too fond of– I don’t know if I’m going to be fond of this person as an individual, but I would love to chat with Jeff Bezos around how he built such a customer-centric culture and the ways in which he has driven change in his organization. Just from things like leaving that empty seat at the table, to think about the customer, to the way I think they approach projects, and the kinds of briefs they have to put together, and the way they implement new things. Just love to get more insights into how he built the powerhouse of Amazon. I think they’re just doing things there. Maybe I go work there at some point and learn, but I just get the feeling that that’s a pretty well-oiled machine.

Justin: Oh, absolutely.

Rachael: Just being an operator, learning from him and how he has perfected and grown that company.

Justin: They really do have the most amazing customer experience of any brand I deal with, short of Apple maybe, but other than those two, it’s hard to think if you’re going to put up with them. A hundred percent I agree with you on that one. Rachael, thank you so much for joining us on The Support Automation Show. If anyone wants to get in touch with you or LeanData or the podcast that you guys have, where should they find you or LeanData?

Rachael: We easiest to look me up on LinkedIn, Rachael McBrearty, and/or go– There’s leandata.com, but if you want to find me, I’m on LinkedIn and you can just ping me there. Thank you, Justin. This was fabulous and I’d love to have you on our podcast as well and hear what you’re up to.

Justin: We’ll definitely have to do it. Rachael, thank you so much for being on The Support Automation Show and you have a wonderful afternoon.

Rachael: Thanks, you too, Justin. Bye.

Justin: Cheers. The Support Automation Show is brought to you by Capacity. Visit capacity.com to find everything you need for automating support and business processes in one powerful platform. You can find this show by searching for support automation in your favorite podcast app. Please subscribe so you don’t miss any future episodes. On behalf of the team here at Capacity, thanks for listening.

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