The Support Automation Show: Episode 3

Rachel Jennings-Keane

In this episode of The Support Automation Show, Justin is joined by Rachel Jennings-Keane, Independent Customer Success Consultant, to share how leveraging technology can “satisfy the unsatisfied”, the power of understanding your customer’s buying behavior, and why you need to analyze customer success rate.

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Justin: [music] Welcome to The Support Automation Show, a podcast by Capacity. Join us for conversations with leaders and customer or employee support who are using technology to answer questions, automate processes, and build innovative solutions to any business challenge. I’m your host, Justin Schmidt. Good afternoon, Rachel. Thanks for coming on. Where does this podcast find you?

Rachel: Hi, Justin. I’m in Naples, Florida.

Justin: Lovely. I’ve got some family in Florida. It’s a great place. I would love to start our chat with a little bit about your journey in support. When and why did you first get into support?

Rachel: I’ve been in the support/customer success space for five to six years. Mainly I’ve been in customer experience support roles prior to joining like the SaaS world, and I really just jumped into an early-stage tech startup in Sydney, Australia called Assignar. I basically was the first person there handling all post-sale customer experience pieces. Success and support were a huge part of that as well. Then most recently, I was in Domo but more as a customer success manager but still, I interface quite heavily with the support team there.

I have a lot of respect for my support peers because I know it is a really difficult job because you’re dealing with problems all day long and not the most happiest customers as well. At the moment, I’m on a sabbatical because I relocated to the US to be with my partner. I’m patiently waiting for my right to work permit which hopefully I’ll get in the next month, but the US immigration has control over that one for me.

Justin: Well, we’ve all got our fingers crossed for you that that gets done sooner rather than later.

Rachel: Yes, thanks.

Justin: When you hear the word “support automation,” which is a concept that here at Capacity we’re trying to bring to light, what does that mean to you?

Rachel: I think it means how do we leverage technology to streamline the experience that customers have when interacting with support? Typically, when you have a problem, your first point of contact is to try and speak to a support representative. Sometimes that can just because you don’t have the access to the information. I think it’s great that a lot of support tools these days are focusing on AI and to basically surface information based off the things that are happening in a live chat or on a phone call trying to jump through the hoops before they have to speak to a person.

I think it then also you to scale a business much faster without needing a heavy head-count, because it’s a shame that support is seen as a cost center rather than a revenue or a customer satisfaction piece. That’s my thoughts on support automation.

Justin: That’s interesting because you mentioned something there that I noticed was also in some of the pieces you’ve published on LinkedIn. You’re a good writer by the way.

Rachel: Oh, thanks.

Justin: You had a piece about understanding how you can create managed churn and turn churn into an opportunity, right?

Rachel: Yes.

Justin: It’s interesting because that’s certainly not a cost center, that is revenue-driving activity. It reminds me a little bit of when I was younger, I worked at a cell phone company selling cell phones. This is in the early 2000s and little different than probably how cell phones are bought today, but it was a competitive sales environment. I had a quota, but renewing customers or keeping someone from churning did not count towards my quota, only new activations did. The whole job design was built to disincentive me to keep paying customers.

I thought it was very fascinating how you were looking at managing churn and creating an opportunity out of that. That speaks to exactly what you just said about support actually not being just a call center. It’s not a tax for having customers. It’s a way to drive revenue and keep and generate customers. I thought that was really interesting. In addition to what you wrote there, and I encourage everybody to follow Rachel on LinkedIn so you could see her writing, are there any other lessons that you learned to help turn customers into opportunity and make support a revenue-driving endeavor.

I think every interaction you have with the customer, regardless of where you sit in an organization is an opportunity because we’re all in this attention economy trying to grab our customer’s attention, and getting that time with them is precious. Even though a support interaction might not be the best, I think that there’s a lot of great data you can collect from that interaction that can then be used by other teams within organization to develop opportunities.

I always took the role at Domo of looking at support tickets my customers were opening because I think that sparks the opportunity to go, “What are they trying to do that we don’t know about that we could be helping them proactively with and resolving their problem faster. Then also decreasing obviously the load on our support team as well. When you’re quite a large organization and you have thousands of customers, obviously support gets swarmed constantly. Being able to try and intervene there in a customer success or a sales role to be like, “Hey, actually what you’re trying to do is with actually this other piece over here that you haven’t even explored yet.”

That’s where I think leveraging data in all the functions is very meaningful. Then how do we create the automation piece around that as well? The other thing I think is getting a dissatisfied customer. An angry customer is actually a good thing because I know that we always want to make people happy but when they’re not satisfied, you then know where you can go from there. It’s uncomfortable. It’s never fun to have those phone calls with customers who are annoyed or pissed off about what’s going on, and we all know that software breaks [unintelligible 00:07:05].

I think it’s important to be like, “What’s actually underneath this? What’s driving this behavior or what’s happening in their business that we don’t know about that we can then uncover an opportunity to help them with what they’re trying to achieve as well.

Justin: At the scale of something like a Domo, lot of customers, it’s a big company, a great product, too.

Rachel: It is a great product too.

Justin: It is a great product. You have to rely on technology and automation to help manage a customer base that large. I’m sure there’s key enterprise accounts versus some smaller accounts. You’ve got to triage things a little bit there from a more manual perspective, but can you tell us how you’ve embraced automation in that high-scale scenario?

Rachel: Yes. Well, I guess the beauty of working in a company like Domo that manages data, I got to not only see how that operates from a support side internally, but then also working with customers that didn’t sit necessarily in the software space, but also I wanted to measure their support interactions as well and how do they leverage data to be smarter and better because obviously everyone’s in a competitive environment, and customer experience has become the forefront of everybody’s mind specifically in a post COVID world.

I feel like all of a sudden, companies are starting to recognize the value of customer success to support and why it’s a crucial key to retaining customers and making sure that their annual recurring revenue is staying where it’s at but also then growing from that. One thing I think that was really useful that Domo did really well was anytime a support ticket was opened, I would get a notification about that and so would the account executive or the salesperson. That’s really helpful because we might be working with a customer on something like to you in a sales space, there might be an opportunity that they’re going after an upsell.

If there’s support tickets happening with another stakeholder that we might not necessarily always be aware of, that obviously allows us to reach out proactively and start to have a conversation with that person and understand what they’re actually trying to do. Then the other thing that was also really helpful was being able to get the status updates. If it was a bug, what is the resolution time? Obviously, in software, you don’t want to be like this ticket is going to be fixed on Monday at 9:00 AM. That’s not what happens in reality.

We would never give a resolution time, but we definitely would have an SLA on a response time. We had customers who could pay for preferred support. There was just general support you had a problem, you open a ticket. Preferred support, obviously, you got a dedicated support person, you got a direct phone line into them, you got a monthly meeting to be like, “Hey” with more of the, I would call the center of excellence team that would be implementing or responsible for Domo, hey, you’re getting all the support tickets on these things. Actually, we should be looking at educating these users on data management, because they keep opening tickets and asking the same questions.

I think that was really helpful way to make sure that trying to put fires out before they became a raging bushfire or such.

Justin: Exactly. In that scenario, you’re bringing a lot of data-driven decision making, you’ve got various processes, self-service type scenarios, knowledge bases and all that customers could go into. You talk about call coaching or some of the real-time agent assist type technology that’s out there. You’re bringing a lot of automation into an operation with that. Did you find the front lines support reps, did they embrace that automation? Did they find it scary thinking, “This is going to take over my job,” deal? Did you run into any of the fear of automation?

Rachel: Surprisingly, no. I think it really depends on the technology stack that an organization chooses. I think at the end of the day, people still want to talk to people. Yes, we can automate to a point but there’s still interactions that happen, obviously, you need a human to talk to rather than a bot. I think people can be afraid of it but I also think you have to look at the opportunity that’s there. Every industry has gone through this, going through it, or is going to go through it. There’s no going back against AI and the data science, all of that space.

I think it’s important to think about what’s the opportunity there. Can I upskill myself so that I’m not just a tier-one support rep? How can I be specialized in the support environment, so that I’m the go-to person? For example, in Domo, there was different pieces. It’s a beast of software. There was one support guy I would always go to for a specific, one of the data connection tools, we had to bring data in from on-prem. He knew this product inside out back to front, sometimes better than the engineers that built it themselves. If I had a problem on that and I wasn’t getting the answer I want, I would go to Greg because I knew Greg would find it to fix it.

Justin: Shout out to Greg.

Rachel: He definitely solved a lot of problems for a lot of really important customers I had to serve, but also spent the time with the customer and educate them on what had happened and how they can try and resolve this themselves. Greg, I think, will always have a role in Domo and support if he wants it because he just goes above and beyond. I think it’s easy to become complacent and think that automation is here to take your job. I think it also can allow you to rise above that and go, “Hey, how can I be specialized here so that I’m needed?”

Justin: Greg is a great example too of what we like to call “managing by exception.” When an organization embraces automation and they do it right, they’re no longer managing every single case by exception. The stuff that you need to bring to Greg, with good automation, you can self serve a lot of that, or you can frontline agent assist a lot of that. Then only the stuff that really warrants Greg to dive deep into it, he now has bandwidth to do that.

That’s the thing that excites me the most about and why I took the job here at Capacity is, automation and AI regardless of what discipline you apply it in is really going to help unlock the full potential of your best people and will help your teams do their best work, as we like to say here, and that’s a perfect example of that. I love it. Another thing that we’ve touched on a little bit here, but I want to double click on it because when we reached out to you to have this discussion, one of the things you mentioned was the internal automation processes between customer success, support, and sales.

This is fascinating to me, because this is a perfect example of automation enabling a higher order of human functioning just to put it clinically, because without automation and everyone’s just paling water the whole time, you’re never going to have the time and the opportunity to make these connections. I would love to just hear your thoughts on this because it’s a fascinating idea. I can’t wait to explore this topic with you.

Rachel: Yes, it’s purely out of something I’ve had as a frustration in my role. I don’t think every organization has this perfectly worked out. I feel we spend a lot of time automating the external interactions that we have. How can we automate emails? How can we automate live chat? How can we automate those, and I think marketing has done a great job of automation with touchpoints and those things. I think sometimes we forget about when you look at a customer and the 360-degree view, obviously, support is really key. Then you have customer success, and you also have sales.

Those three are always going to be interfacing with the customer at different points in their journey, obviously. I think what misses it from an operational standpoint is when I have interaction as a customer success manager with a customer, and then for whatever reason in a week or two time they open a support ticket, allowing support to have that visibility around that interaction I think is meaningful. If I as a customer success manager have had an interaction with a customer, and then a week later, they open a support ticket with support, I think what is valuable is being able to have a visibility as a support person to know that this interaction has occurred.

I even had my own experience in the last week when I was contacting a company about a lost parcel. I had literally once a day reached out to them on live chat. It’s like every person until I got on the phone to speak to someone just didn’t recognize that I’d already had a talk, chat, conversation about the same thing five times before. She recognized that straight away, which really turned around my thoughts on the company actually. I was like, “Get it together. Can’t you see I’ve already had five conversations about this same damn thing?” She was like, “Oh, I see you’ve already had quite a few conversations about this. I’m really sorry.” Obviously, recognizing that frustration.

“I’m going to put you on hold and work out what’s going on.” I think that being able to have visibility over that and knowing what happened prior to obviously answering that call really enables to turn around those interactions, because I feel customers that have a surprise churn on you, it’s never a surprise, I think it’s a build-up of little things that we miss in those interactions that then end up with them going, “You know what, I’m going to go somewhere else because I feel this company doesn’t care about me anymore. It doesn’t get us anymore.”

I feel it’s in those little things. That’s why I think AI and automation can be really powerful. By using natural language processing to look at, “Well, these words are actually saying this.” Even though the tone is actually more on the negative side, you might not necessarily pick that up but this is what a machine can tell you. I think that’s a valuable thing that people should be looking at.

Justin: It’s also that record of those engagements when the contract is up for renewal and the account executive is trying to get them to re-up or upgrade or whatever it is, that record of those engagements and for them to be able to see into that understand that CSAT and some of the sentiment around those interactions with support is really helpful because then if the, let’s say the account executive and the CSM on the account or whatever need to need to speak with each other, the technology has brought them both up to speed such that the conversation will be fruitful and actually when they actually speak.

Rachel: Exactly. The other thing around internal automation that’s really powerful is so that when sales or customer success is talking to a customer, they are informed and they can acknowledge, “Hey, I know you have this issue. I know support are looking into it. I’ve escalated on my end and following it. I understand it’s a priority of yours.” Trying to be as proactive as possible. I know that everyone’s trying to move into this proactive space and it’s a really hard thing to achieve. I think that’s where automation internally comes into play that these support tickets have happened over here or they’ve had a conversation with finance, for example, because their credit card got declined.

It could be the flip side. They started talking about marketing, about doing a case study and this is where the case study is at. Not all interactions are bad at the end of the day.

Justin: Correct.

Rachel: That’s one thing.

Justin: This is such an interesting line of thought because one of the things that automation enables in AI in this type of information sharing, and when you free people up to only engage in the higher level stuff that humans excel at, you end up using time a lot more efficiently. A lot of software solutions ours included, one of the things we measure is how much time we’re saving our customers. If you can deflect a certain percentage of tickets and each ticket has a certain amount of time it takes to resolve, you can start really drawing a clear line between your investment and the technology and the return on that investment.

This leads me to a question that I love asking people when they come on the show and that is, can you share a specific automation or a specific process that was automated that had a material impact on the business? I know sometimes you can’t share exact specifics from dollar amounts or whatever but as best as you can, I would love to hear a specific example of automation that had a positive impact.

Rachel: I think going back to when I was working at Assignar, we were a very small team at that point in time and we had to leverage the tools that we had and that was Intercom. One of the most time-consuming processes is obviously onboarding. When you’re growing and have 20 customers to onboard and there’s two or three CSMs who do onboarding and support at the same time, you’re only limited by how many hours you’re in a day without those people burning out and churning themselves.

We looked to leverage intercom. We built a campaign with multiple different touchpoints within the platform leveraging API endpoints from our software. When somebody did create it, scheduled a workout because it was a construction operation tool.

When they scheduled a workout for the first time or a truck out to a job, we would send them an instant message being like, “Congrats on doing this step,” trying to be a positive, reinforcing of specific pieces that we knew in the platform if they used every day, we would be able to retain them. When they send a text message for the first time, that as well. Then we would have an email send off which is more of a time series like, “Hey, you’ve been in this line for this amount of time. We can see you’re using these different pieces of tools. Do you want to schedule a call with X person to dive deeper into how you can be leveraging this better?”

We saw a decrease of onboarding time. Time to value, obviously in terms of them being out to actually be using the platform rather than learning how to use the platform. I think it reduced it from being more of a six-week process to four to five weeks which was extremely [inaudible 00:23:57] [crosstalk].

Justin: That’s significant.

Rachel: Also, it started to spark conversations with new users that we didn’t know existed in the platform as well, which I think is also great because one of the things I think we don’t look at enough is who are our champion users that our sales and success team don’t talk to every day and they’re hiding in every single account. You just need to find them and you need to have the access to the data to find them.

Justin: Yes, exactly. To be able to fingerprint your ideal customer who has a quick time to value is pushing the boundaries of whatever package of the platform that they have bought and therefore, there’s expansion revenue opportunity, you have an advocate, you have someone who’s going to turn into maybe a great case study for marketing but you’re exactly right. You have to activate those people and you have to use technology to achieve that. That’s an excellent takeaway for support leaders listening to the show is, you can be a revenue driver and leverage your tech to find ways where you can drive value faster.

That’s a perfect example. Onboarding is a key part of the support journey. Even if it’s maybe divorced from a person who is filing a ticket because something isn’t working right a year after they first became a customer, but onboarding is still part of that larger journey. I love the way you articulated that.

Rachel: Typically, you’re used to getting a lot more questions and tickets from customers who are in that onboarding phase. It’s important to make sure that their experience in that phase is phenomenal on all fronts because that really then sets them up for the journey they’re going to go on with your software and your people that then can obviously turn them into champions and advocates and participate in case studies and speak at events if that’s what you need them for. The other thing I think you can do with automation is make it fun.

I think that sometimes we want to be really formal and I think sometimes you can be fun. I know one thing I always experimented on was using gifts to really just break down. I think it also depends on the software you have and the brand voice obviously as well if that fits in with the branding. I don’t think it always has a place, but I think it also helps that interaction of making someone giggle or smile even though they might not be the happiest in that point.

Justin: At Capacity, we have a repository and a knowledge pack if you will, of personality-type things that we can put into the chatbots so it can tell you jokes and do all that stuff which is, on one hand, it’s silly but on the other hand, it is also fun. Whether it’s through sending a funny gift to a customer or even a nice little well-placed emoji. If you can communicate with somebody like you communicate with a friend, you can endear some brand equity to that person and then it matters. I agree with you. Making it fun is definitely something that more people should be thinking about when they’re adopting these technologies.

It goes back to the scary question I asked you earlier about why people may be scared of automation. If it’s fun, they’re not going to be scared. Looking back on some of the experiences you’ve had with automation and support, if you were to give advice to another leader who’s getting ready to start their automation journey, what would it be?

Rachel: There’s so many things that do come to mind. One is, I’m a big fan of testing a process manually before you add automation. Automation is great and it has a place but if your process doesn’t work manually, it’s not going to work automatically with automation. I think that that’s a big piece. The second thing is understanding why you want automation in the first place. What problem is it really solving? What business value is that giving internally and also what business value is that going to give to your customers as well? I can tell you right now that I became really frustrated as a customer this week because of automation. Automation is great but sometimes it can also have a negative impact

Justin: Yes, the rush to implementation at the cost of planning creates the experience you had. It thrills me to hear you say that because as someone who sits on maybe the other side of the fence where I do marketing for a support automation company. One of the things that we try to impart in our marketing and our sales process, especially when people get to some process automation is, let’s diagram it out. Let’s understand what the actual process is. Let’s understand what APIs needs to be connected to when.

What exactly you’re pulling. What is the success criteria, literally chart it out. Then we can build the workflow and software to do that. You may find in that process where, “Oh, actually I may not need to automate as much as I originally thought here. This is just pure job design that I can pick a few places and fix. Therefore, let’s see if we can apply this automation to a hairier problem. You never would have gotten there had you not to your point like thought it through first. That’s fantastic advice and I love hearing that because, quite frankly, it makes me feel like I’m not crazy when this is something that we try to use as a marketing collateral as well.

Rachel: Typically, you know that the problem exists. The other thing, and this is just me working in a data company for the last two and a half years. Then also, while I’ve been on sabbatical, I’ve done an enterprise data management course because I’m just a bit of a tech geek and I haven’t understood some concepts so I’ve thought, well, I’ve got an opportunity to learn about it, which has been really helpful, because now I understand a lot more about why organizations have such intense data challenges. I would say what data do you have to back up that this is a problem? Sorry, that’s my lovely pug again.

Justin: Oh, you’re quite all right. I did have my five-year-old daughter came in here. She is adorable, she opened the door and did the sneaking cartoon walk. It was amazing.

Rachel: Love that. Well, these are all the worlds we live in now, right?

Justin: Yes, that’s true.

Rachel: One of the things around the whole data piece is like, what does the data say currently about the problem. I do have so many support tickets open and the SLA response time is low or is not meeting the levels that you set. Then, therefore, the KPIs you set for your support team show that they’re lagging and obviously, that doesn’t really boost support team’s morale. Then how is it measurable is a really key thing. There’s a great book that I bought back in 2016 that I feel I’m now ready to actually read. It’s called How to Measure Anything. It’s a statistics-heavy book.

Basically, it’s by Douglas– I’m thinking of his last name. The whole concept of his book is that you can measure anything if you add a value to it as such. There’s a lot of things in organizations that aren’t measured, because we believe that it’s immeasurable when it actually is. It’s just taking the time and bringing in some really smart people to help you do that. I think now there’s a lot of smart tools that can help you with that as well.

Justin: Yes, that’s another good piece. Don’t be afraid to reach out to some of your colleagues to help understand the tech and the data you have at your disposal, you have those conversations to get ideas on where your automation journey can go. Love that.

Rachel: One of the things I think is also really key is how do you upscale your team on data literacy as well. I think one of the things I always look to is people in the trenches every day in support are often overlooked because they’re so busy in the doing, but they can have a great impact on the direction you want to go in based off their experience of what has happened in their role. I think that it’s valuable to bring them into the conversation around automation and what you’re thinking because also, then you’re bringing your team on the journey, rather than being like, “Hey, I’ve gone away and thought of this amazing process and now we’re going to implement it.”

This is just having helped companies implement software and seeing the change management issue that happens is because most of the time, the people who actually have to do it and be part of it aren’t consulted and included in that process. They might have great solutions that you haven’t thought of before as well.

Justin: Love it. We’re going to end with a quickfire round here. I don’t have this branded yet. The Famous Five, the Fabulous Four. I need to come up with the name for this little segment here, but we’re just going to call it Quick-fire Round for now. What’s the book you most often recommend to people?

Rachel: Oh, I reckon it really depends, to be honest with you. The book I think that I’ve read in the last year that’s had the best impact for me is Never Split the Difference by Chris Voss. It’s a negotiation book. It is probably the best business book I’ve read in the last three years because every interaction you have is a negotiation whether you know it or not.

Justin: That is correct.

Rachel: I love that he comes from the perspective of being in the FBI, and he tells some really cool stories along the way that people are emotional and trying to understand where they’re at and meeting them where they’re at to really disarm that. I think that that’s really helpful for a support person because you’re going to have to get on the phone to some not so pleasant people and get some pretty angry emails with a lot of caps, exclamation points, all those kind of-

Justin: Kind of use of language.

Rachel: -to really demonstrate that they are upset right now. I think that we don’t arm people enough with how do they deal with their situations. Then another book I read that I really loved was Subscribed by the CEO of–

Justin: Scrapped, you said?

Rachel: Subscribed.

Justin: Subscribed.

Rachel: Yes, it’s from the CEO of Zorah. Basically, Subscribed is about the subscription economy model and how it not only applies to SaaS to how it applies to other industries as well. I think it’s really interesting with things like automation and AI how that’s disrupting construction and how subscription models are being implemented in construction. Then someone I always read his books is Scott Galloway, he wrote The Four, which is a great book, obviously, on Facebook, Amazon, Google. I just finished reading his newest book called Post Corona.

Justin: Post Corona. I’ve got that sitting in my Kindle.

Rachel: Great thought-provoking book around how companies can actually become part of the four. It’s just how you’re recognizing those opportunities.

Justin: What’s the best productivity hack you’ve ever used?

Rachel: Productivity hack I’ve ever used. My calendar.

[laughter]

Justin: Do you have a system that you use to manage your calendar?

Justin: Blocking that time is really key so that people don’t intrude on it. Then the other thing is, I live and breathe by Evernote as well and I have since like 2015. I think that that’s really helpful in terms of having a daily note of here’s what I want to do and then meeting notes or thoughts, and then obviously, you have the reactionary stuff that happens in every day that you can’t foresee or control. I’d say probably the best productivity hack, it doesn’t involve anything but being able to say no.

Justin: Being able to say no, that is a fantastic suggestion. One of the things we do every year, I have a productivity hacks listicle that I’ve turned into a webinar that we update every year. One of the things we added recently was exactly that, “Don’t be afraid to say no.” You don’t have to say yes to everything, and a lot of people think they have to say yes to everything.

Rachel: Also, it’s saying no and explaining why no. I used to be a yes person and then I burnt out as every yes person does. Being able to say no and explain why no or the other thing is it might not be easy to say no to your manager, for example. One thing I would be like, “Okay, what would you like me to deprioritize, or how would you like me to proceed, because there’s also these other things happening at the same time?” What you’re doing is you’re putting that problem back to the person who’s brought you the problem.

That’s also something I would ask in support, would be like, “How would you like to proceed?” when you have a really confrontational customer because then you’re putting the problem back on them and they can give you what they’re expecting, and then you can work out where you can meet them on that.

Justin: That’s excellent. If you could recommend one site, blog, Slack community, LinkedIn group, et cetera, for support leaders, what would it be?

Rachel: I would say I have spent a lot of time on Gain Grow Retain. Even though it’s focused towards customer success, I still think support falls under that customer success banner. I think that the beauty of not just being in a support environment but also being in the overarching group, is that you have so many different perspectives and ideas to kind of, I would still take and make your own. I’m a big fan of, “Don’t reinvent the wheel,” the wheel already exists in multiple different shapes and forms out there. It’s just finding the people that can give you that kind of how-to and it’s a really supportive community as well. I think that Jay Nathan and Jeff [unintelligible 00:39:53] have done an amazing job at growing that community and making sure that it’s not just about them. It’s about the people in there as well.

Justin: We talked to Jeff for an episode of this. He’s a good dude. He’s got a lot of very interesting and not only thought-provoking but also coming from a wisdom of the crowd, just because of that community. It’s a great conversation and I highly recommend anybody listening to this also listen to that episode because it’s a good one. Last question, if you could take one person out for coffee or happy hour, if that’s the vibe in the world of support, who would that be?

Rachel: They’re not in support. It’s actually, I’d love to take Scott Galloway out for a coffee because I’m a big fan of going outside of your industry or your network to get ideas. I always think about if I’m a customer, what is the great support experience that I’ve had? I look at companies like Apple and Amazon, they have focused so intensely on that experience that you go there out of default because their customer experience is great and it’s always resolved quickly.

I think that Scott has quite a broad perspective on the world and what’s happening in it. I think that then he could bring all these different things to the table that I might not necessarily see. I think that’s then useful to spark a new idea of how to attack a problem.

Justin: Love it. Well, there you go, everyone. Rachel, thank you so much for taking the time to chat with us today. I encourage everybody to follow Rachel on LinkedIn. She writes some great stuff about really turning support into revenue-driving function. She’s also got some great stuff on what she’s learned from managing customer success. Rachel, I can’t thank you enough for your time today, and I hope you have a wonderful afternoon.

Rachel: Thank you, you too. It was great to have a chat. I really appreciate the time.Justin 3: The Support Automation show is brought to you by capacity. Visit capacity.com to find everything you need for automating support and business processes.